Trevor Botkin: 0:10

And welcome back to another exciting episode of when Leaders Connect the Corporate Connections podcast, where we delve into the stories and insights of visionary leaders driving change and innovation in their fields.

Trevor Botkin: 0:21

Hi, my name is Trevor Botkin. I am the National Director for Corporate Connections, Canada, and today I have the incredible privilege to sit down with another extraordinary guest. Joining us is Jackson Fisk, the founder and CEO of Goal Zero. His journey is a testament to his commitment to helping individuals and organizations optimize themselves and reach their highest potential. He is focused on not only productivity, but placing a strong emphasis on compliance around safety and the importance of investing in human capital. By integrating these principles into GoZero, he ensures that users and companies are not only reaching their potential, but doing so in a manner that prioritizes safety and values the well-being of the individuals within that organization. In today's episode, we're going to explore Jackson's entrepreneurial journey, his insights into the future of technology and safety and compliance, as well as his advice for leaders looking to maximize their potential while all the time maintaining a commitment to safety and the most important asset they have in their company, which is the people that work for them. Please welcome to the show, Jackson Fisk.

Jackson Fisk: 1:30

Jackson how are you today? Not too bad, trevor, thank you.

Trevor Botkin: 1:38

That is a mouthful when we're talking about compliance and human capital.

Jackson Fisk: 1:41

You did an amazing job.

Trevor Botkin: 1:41

I'm yawning already the word compliance instantly, I'm like, oh, I spent almost seven years in construction and I have to say there were times where, yeah, we were not compliant it.

Jackson Fisk: 1:56

It is. It's painful to sell um because again, I can't come at the minute. I say compliance and due diligence and regulatory bodies. People just I watch their eyes gloss over and look at the floor and then try to exit the conversation. So I completely understand that. But really what we do is we protect businesses by protecting their people and if we can start from that foundation, I would say 99% of businesses don't actually want to hurt their workers, right, like no one maliciously makes a business for the most part and goes. You know what I feel like Killing my workers Probably not the best start, but if we can start telling them why we need to do this and then we can make it simple, we can build that foundation. So that's kind of where we went with it well, that's fantastic.

Trevor Botkin: 2:46

Let's, let's step back, let's let's go back to a bit of your journey, because it's it's an interesting one, I think and not every business owner I think it gives. It will shed context a little bit to the way you go about running your business. So now you you served in the Canadian Armed Forces and I know that shaped some of the choices that you make today and how you operate your business. So maybe take us back and explain a little bit that journey.

Jackson Fisk: 3:14

Sure, absolutely so. Yeah, I served, and like most people, I'll say I didn't serve enough, right. So that's different to each individual person. But I actually I went away to the military when I was 60. So that was an ask. I asked my parents to go and I got shipped off to Shiloh and I went through my BMQ, which was basic military qualifications, and then did my QL3, which was my trade school for the artillery, and it was as simple as that. But you know the military foundation, where they literally break you down and rebuild. You set the foundation for the rest of my life into my career and without that I don't know where I would have been. You know speed bumps along the way, but process, procedure, teamwork, how to execute a task in the most efficient way and safest way is a fundamental of everything that the military teaches you.

Trevor Botkin: 4:15

I can't help it. And just if you missed that a moment ago he said 16, one six and not 60. He said 16, one six and not 60.

Jackson Fisk: 4:25

I will say I had, um, we'll watch for it. I'll plug a book that's not out yet. I've been writing a book on on this journey and, um, the reason being is, uh, from an upbringing that I had, I uh, I'll say I overcorrected and I wanted to not be. I didn't want my life trajectory to go the way I wanted it to. Um, so I, I had this kind of complex where I wanted to help people, right, and that's that's where it started. So I wanted to be what I'd say a good person. You can call it a hero complex, but that sounds weird, because I didn't want the fame, I just wanted to be able to help someone. So I went to the police and I'm like, okay, I'm going to be a cop, Went to the police and they said, no, you're not. Good luck, kid, you will never be a police officer.

Trevor Botkin: 5:23

This was before the military.

Jackson Fisk: 5:26

Yeah. Yeah, I was looking at like road mapping out a career, sure right so when I looked at it, I didn't go. You know what I'm gonna go to university and I'm gonna go take business or I'm gonna go take this. Like that had no relevance to me at that time in my life right I went.

Jackson Fisk: 5:40

I'm a big person, I'm a big kid, I'm strong. How can I use that? How can I help people? And so I went to the police and they looked at me, ran some files and went sorry, guilty by association, you will never be a cop. And I went oh, okay, again, look for the book.

Trevor Botkin: 6:02

There's a lot of stories I feel like we're scratching the surface. This is a superficial kind of yes, I get that very, very scratching the surface on that.

Jackson Fisk: 6:12

So you know. Then I went to the fire department and you know kind of road, tried to roadmap that out and they said, yeah, good luck you till you're 25, not even like, don't even worry about it. And then I went to the military and the recruitment center and they go, yeah, kid, we'll take you, get your parents to sign this. And that was a conversation I actually had at 15 with my parents. Okay, so you know, there was, you know, talk to my parents now, or as older, as an adult. It scared the crap out of them.

Trevor Botkin: 6:46

Sure, of course.

Jackson Fisk: 6:48

But my mom said, if you're willing to do this and this is something that you want to do, yeah we'll sign. And yeah, so I did that. I had to finish my grade 11 year early and kind of reposition, some exams, and then I got shipped off to Shiloh, manitoba, and then, yeah, that was kind of worked my way through there. And then there's stories from the military that we can go on to. But Trev, we only have a short period of time. It's limited time. We're giving everyone a snapshot.

Trevor Botkin: 7:19

Well, first off, thank you for your service, um and and, at such a young, a young age. And then you were in the military. Until what age?

Jackson Fisk: 7:28

Actually it was like 19. So there's this whole thing where you have to re-sign a contract and this is where you get into your adolescent egos that come into it. I have this whole thing where if I'm not progressing the way that I want to, then I'm not moving forward. Then why am I doing it? Okay? So you know, here here's a good case I applied for every UN, like rotation, every exercise that I could and was denied for all of them. So that's where I say, like you know, I didn't serve the way I wanted to serve or you could always get more, and it was actually.

Jackson Fisk: 8:02

It wasn't until I was in my late twenties, when I was talking to another friend in the military that went you dummy, like, why would they send a kid to Bosnia? Or why would they send a kid Like there? It wasn't that you weren't good enough to go, it was just them saying, look, you don't have to go, do this Right. And I went. Well, that probably makes a lot more sense, but at the time you don't think of it, right? So when I got out of the military, I went to school to be a medic and a firefighter. So that was the next transition. I said, okay, now I have this experience, let me, let me go do this. But again, you're young, so getting the jobs that you want aren't the easiest, so I eventually got into oil and gas, and that was the transition there.

Trevor Botkin: 8:50

As one does if they're living in Alberta, especially in that time period.

Jackson Fisk: 8:55

Exactly. You know oil and gas is booming, there's a lot of money to be made and that actually really progressed my career very quickly. And I, you know I will put the military experience to that. Sure, right, you go camp lifestyle. We show up, we work hard, we get paid, we do that.

Jackson Fisk: 9:18

But I was really good again at fixing problems or looking at efficiencies or just work ethic was very, very well. So I progressed into supervision and management very quickly, um, to the point where you know we get into the talks on safety and and what, what do people teach you? You know I've had some great mentors and then you have some great jobs that no one teaches you a damn thing, have some great jobs that no one teaches you a damn thing. And you know again, my work ethic got me pretty far and it wasn't until I started educating myself more now as an adult to say, hey, look, I always want to do better. They kind of got me onto the occupational health and safety route and you know I can tell some stories on that, but I can stop there too if you have some more questions.

Trevor Botkin: 10:06

But what was, what was the impetus behind? Because, I mean, I can see the through line in terms of you know, 16 to 19, being in a very structured and obviously regimented life where it's nothing but training for eventual, for you going out to help others and I think the Canadian military has always been very good at being in a position where it's out there improving situations around the world and we have a pretty good reputation for that and then you come back in into the private sector where you're trying to get into again fire medic on a help flow. Then ultimately you take a job where you're helping yourself, which is you're earning pay and doing that. But what was the impetus? To go into health and safety and seeing that, from this moment of where you can get back to what sounds like a real driver for you is to create space for others. Where you can get back to what sounds like a real driver for you is to create space for others where they can remain safe and and this again, this this need to help uh, yeah, absolutely.

Jackson Fisk: 11:14

So I I know exactly where the defining moment whereas I could do better came from I will tell you the story of why I educated myself in health and safety, because there's a, like you said you were, you've, you've worked in construction, so you know how people react to the safety person on site.

Trevor Botkin: 11:33

Oh yeah.

Jackson Fisk: 11:34

Yeah, and it was no different when I was working in oil and gas. Like we'd take our tool belt off and go hey, we'll go back to work when you leave, right, like that was just the attitude towards it. And as I got into like construction coordination level of work, I would go into an office and see all of these safety professionals and I use the term professionals lightly, people in safety and I'd be like what do you, what are you working on, what are you doing? Oh, and they'd get all these excuses and all these these stories of what they're working on and I'm like you need to go out in the field and help people. And so I actually educated myself in health and safety to try to figure out what they were doing and if I could remove them or do it better. So there was like an ego driven education point to be like hey, maybe I don't know something, let me figure this out. And then, when I came back and I went no, we can do this a lot differently. That being said, the the moment that switched in my brain was and I don't know if anyone out there has listened has been involved in a serious incident on a work site. Right, lots of people get cut, scrapes, banged up, bruised and you go okay, crap, that sucks, it shouldn't happen, but you move on.

Jackson Fisk: 12:55

I was showing a trades crew where to do some work on an oil and gas site, and I'll leave them out the name, but we were working next to a pipe fitting crew and they were taking apart a valve, and we'll just say there was a. For people that don't know what a valve is from an oil, well, think of a big metal pipe with a valve on it. I don't know how to explain it any different than that pipe with a valve on it. I don't know how to explain it any different than that. And they had to take it apart. So when we take things apart, it's called lockout, tagout. We have to prove zero energy. That means we have to prove that there's no pressure, there's no force, anything out there that could affect the safety of their workers. And to do that you have these isolation points and you stop the power, whether it's energy or liquid or air or whatever, to go through there. Well, uh, they isolated the wrong valve head. No one proved and no one verified the process, and when these pipe fitters went to go tear apart this valve. It was under pressure and blue. It hit the worker in the chest and there was about seven of us out there and you can go.

Jackson Fisk: 14:09

Okay, this happened and my brain instantly went to I can help this man. I've went through training, I've had medical backgrounds, I have military. How do we help him? Well, you can't. We pretty much hold them to make them feel comfortable.

Jackson Fisk: 14:26

We wait for emergency services to come in from the plant. The ambulance gets there and then the conversation starts. They're like well, why isn't he driving? And I'm like, well, if he's not stable, they can't work on him and drive at the same time. We're like backlogging roads. So eventually they get working. They leave.

Jackson Fisk: 14:46

We start driving back into plant and I see a helicopter come in and I went crap, that's stars. And they're like how can you tell? And I said, well, you can tell if you've seen a stars helicopter. It landed at camp. We actually went for dinner. We signed out at the end of the day, went for dinner, came back it still didn't leave and I went this man's not going to make it. And the helicopter finally took off and, yeah, he didn't make it.

Jackson Fisk: 15:13

He passed away at they got airlifted to Edmonton. He passed away at something like two in the morning. He had three kids, four grandchildren, and you know it shut down that part of that plant for two years to go on. And then you know you have grief counselors, you have all these things come in for all the people that are affected, people that worked with this guy for 10 years up there on maintenance, and it's it's really just, it's horrible. Right To think, to think of all of this that happened could have been prevented, sure, so at that time, my boardroom etiquette and, trevor, you know me, um is always learning, but at that time it was non-existent. So I had, you know, I wrote a really angry letter to everyone, my managers, and I'm like we killed this guy and he went Jackson, that wasn't your job, that wasn't your crew, you had nothing to do with that and I went. I know I was speaking emotionally. I meant like we as a as a whole, killed this guy and they went. Well, don't worry, we're going to put more processes in place and I was like we didn't do the one, like they didn't do the ones they were supposed to do, right? So I'm like what does putting more in there ever have to do with anything? And so that was kind of that vent.

Jackson Fisk: 16:31

You know, I kept working for a bit and then I came back and I got asked. They're like, hey, do you want to go safety? I'm like no, I'm like not at all, do I suck at coordination? And they're like nope, but we actually think that you would do good at this. And they're like you've educated yourself, your background is helping people Like this is a natural fit for you and you've also done everything that these guys have done out in the field, so you have an earned respect that they'll actually listen to what you're saying. And that was my transition into health and safety. It wasn't ever a thought of like hey, I want be the safety guy. It was kind of that transition. And then you go.

Trevor Botkin: 17:14

You're right, I do have this applied kind of outlook from previous life experience that I could take and maybe make a difference, and that's where it started from but it also sounds like there's a real attempt to disconnect the bureaucracy from health and safety, because I think, from what I'm hearing and from my own experience, it always felt like a bureaucratic position, like a cover your ass, not a proactive like let me help you get home tonight to see your wife and kids. It felt like it was a. It was from the side, more of um, you know, counting pennies than it was of of from an actual desire to see other people succeed and be safe you're.

Jackson Fisk: 18:07

you're absolutely right, and unfortunately it is still like that.

Trevor Botkin: 18:12

Sure.

Jackson Fisk: 18:12

So you know, everyone has that. Well, every business owner or Simon Sinek. Start with why, right, you know, and if you could do that for health and safety and actually explain to people why we have to do these things instead of forcing it down their throat and telling them this is what we have to do? That was my biggest approach that I took with everything that I've ever tried to implement with any one of my clients. But to back that up, it is bureaucratic. So the way the system is made, if you here in Canada, we have our core certification, so certificate of recognition it's done by WCB partnership of injury reduction and they said, hey, if you build a safety program to meet this standard and you audit it and you follow it, we'll give you a discount on your workers compensation costs or the opportunity to.

Jackson Fisk: 19:07

The carrot or the opportunity to the carrot, yeah, and you go okay, so again, what it's made for, perfectly good. Let's. Let's promote safety, let's promote people to do better and let's incentivize them. Right, the problem now is, if you're in oil and gas or construction, it becomes a checkbox. Do you have it or do you not? And so if you don don't have it, you don't even get to bid. So now people will force through their systems. They'll put them in place. They'll force people to do it without having that fundamental on why we're doing it to get our checkbox. So it's how we do it. Same with workers' compensation claims. It's how we do it, you know. Same with workers' compensation claims. So our TRIF scores total recordable incident frequency that you get for workers' compensation. So if we hurt people, there's a statistical value saying that you're going to hurt X amount of people at this rate if you don't change. And so you have kind of like a set score working with some of these contractors. If your score is over a certain number, they don't even look at you.

Jackson Fisk: 20:15

Really so regardless of if you're, it's skewed because it's based on a company with 100 people. It's based on that metric. So if you're a small company of 10 to 20 people and you have one incident, your score goes through the roof. And you have one incident, your score goes through the roof. So what this does is, again, it gets people to hide reporting, hide the process and not actually follow through with it, because they're afraid if they report honestly or actually try to work within the system, they won't get work. So it's purely the system's broken and we've made it that way and it's because everyone wants to be competitive.

Jackson Fisk: 20:56

But when I go into companies, that's the first thing I do is I sit with supervisors Because the way legislation is written yes, there's requirements to follow legislation we have to protect workers it's the frontline supervisors that are in the most risky position under liability. Sure, the way that a safety manual and a safety program is written is definitely to cover the ass of the business owner, of course. Right, like it's written that way, you will do this, you will do this, you will do this. And it's actually up to the person who directs work. They're the ones that can be held criminally liable if something goes wrong. So there's this huge disconnect of training resources.

Jackson Fisk: 21:41

How do we help people? How do we set them up for success? And each industry is a little different, but we need to. We need to tell people why we're doing it. Whenever I drop a 200 to a thousand page manual into a company, I know they're not reading that from the top to the bottom. It's up to us to explain why each section exists. How do we apply it Right? This is and you build out from there. Um, and when you look at it systematically, it's truly not hard and you can make it not overwhelming and you can make the system work for you right. It doesn't have to be so prescriptive, it just has to work right.

Trevor Botkin: 22:23

So that's kind of where we evolved from and my approach to how we try to do things and my approach to how we try to do things, and what are you seeing right now from technology in terms of helping you overcome some of the challenges that you have, in terms of whether it's getting people to learn or to assimilate data? Like is the new crop of, whether it's AI or technology, or VR or AR tools is that helping you?

Jackson Fisk: 22:50

It is so you know this kind of goes into. You know the business as we see it now.

Trevor Botkin: 22:56

Sure.

Jackson Fisk: 22:57

Was. Again, I never thought I'd be a tech company. So to say that, to go from that story that we just have to say now I'm a tech company, 20-year-old me would have just been shaking his head. But technology can make us way more efficient. You know, when I was a consultant, so when I left that job and I started consulting, you know it kind of went into I was helping big companies fix the same problems over and over again and again. It's finding that. Why it's training our supervisors? Because, again I look back at it, when I was a supervisor no one actually taught me my liabilities or responsibility. They just gave me more money and told me to do more work and at the time that was great. Until you actually understand the ramifications of what that means.

Trevor Botkin: 23:42

Well, they don't want you to necessarily understand how liable you are. No at all. It doesn't serve them to have you understand just how much you're swinging in the wind exactly so, and that was always my first approach.

Jackson Fisk: 23:56

It was like, hey, you know. Yeah, this sucks, but this is why we need to do this right. This is for you to protect yourself and your workers. And then again, if you ever have to make a phone call to someone's loved one saying that someone's not coming home, I hope no one ever has to do that in their life. It's the worst thing ever. That being said, I used to use a bunch of different software tools just to make me more efficient as a consultant. How can I actually make myself more efficient? So technology was the answer. A hundred percent, um. And when I looked at the industry again, the industry is it's very skewed. So if you look at the median average across Canada for a health and safety coordinator or a manager, you know you're looking. You're really looking at around the $80,000 a year mark, but it ranges anywhere from $50,000 to $200,000 a year, and when I worked oil and gas, it was the $200,000 up.

Jackson Fisk: 24:55

Of course, and that was great. But now take those professionals and try to put them into any other industry. It's astronomical right. Try to take someone from oil and gas and put them into a home building like a local small business. You can't afford those rates or those wages, nor should small businesses have to. So I wanted to use technology to make me more efficient, and that was the evolution of what Gold Zero is. And, using technology, I used to hammer a few tools together to make a stack that worked for me, and I used different ones and played out with different things, and then I finally just said, no, I'm going to build my own. And that was the evolution.

Jackson Fisk: 25:38

And now, when we incorporate AI and we incorporate all these other things, it's never going to take away the expertise needed to connect on a human level. I say that it might, but you know like right now, people don't trust it. People still want to talk to humans. They still want that kind of connection. So combining it has made us way more efficient and I can see it only improving ever so much.

Jackson Fisk: 26:07

When we talk about AR and VR the, the capabilities are amazing, like when I look at if anyone's had to do a critical lift. We've had to map out um cranes, so big crane jobs, critical lifts where you have three cranes lifting a hundred tons and pivoting something and putting it down somewhere and you go. Imagine if you could practice that without having to have three cranes on site and the cost and actually make people confident. So it's going to be ever improving. Now the downside is that's great for big business that can afford it right now. For the small, medium employers that everything's still cost-driven. Can we get to that level to make it very more efficient? And what I find from the technology input it's not generational. We have young people that still can't function certain things or don't want to from an app base. There's a whole gambit of what people are comfortable doing with tech right, even in their own businesses, sure.

Trevor Botkin: 27:18

So you know there's a lot of room for improvement and I see it going nowhere but up from there you're able to delineate between increasing your efficiency and suddenly switching over to finding ways to be more effective. And by that I mean where, if the goal is to help others understand because obviously, from a business, understand efficiency is about driving more businesses through having more success and ultimately driving your bottom line. I mean it's when we talk efficiency, but you, jackson, as an individual who's driven to help others, where is that point where you find the effectiveness? Where, as opposed to getting as many clients as possible, it's about saying how many clients did I save?

Jackson Fisk: 28:13

I want goal zero and I want our approach, whether it's our software or approach, or I want to help as many people as I can in the world, and our goal was 100 companies in every major city that cared about people Right and or jurisdiction that cares about people.

Trevor Botkin: 28:31

Sure.

Jackson Fisk: 28:32

Yeah, that's my big, audacious goal, but with that I had markers built in that. Okay, then we can give back to the local community and we can help.

Jackson Fisk: 28:42

I haven't thought past it as much as that. It was how many people can we help and can we actually help them make sense of it? Because it's also I don't want to say that I'm arrogant to want to change an industry, but I'm arrogant and want to change an industry because I want to go to people. And again, you've said it, trev, you know, you were in construction, you know what it's like the minute I talk about regulation, compliance or due diligence. It's fricking painful, it's painful.

Jackson Fisk: 29:14

I want to make it so people don't actually have to feel that pain, right Like I. Honestly, I think if the government did their jobs different and we don't have time for that conversation either- that's another podcast.

Jackson Fisk: 29:30

If you start a business, they should go. What industry are you in? How many people? What are your goals? Here is all the employment standards, here's all the safety standards, here's all of the tools that you actually need for payroll accounting, due diligence, everything. And it's here, it's for you Now. If you don't do it and implement it and there's some training that you can take now we're going to fine you and we're going to hold you legally accountable to do it. But we don't do that. You can walk into a registry here in Alberta, walk out with a corporation and go do business, right now.

Trevor Botkin: 30:06

But that comes back to that bureaucracy, right, and it's a challenge as a business owner where you see, you know just this expanse of government there to generate more bureaucratic things, and so I don't I don't know if it's that. I think, again what you talked about, which is coming back to your why, and if you want to grow a business, you're not going to grow a business if your employees are getting hurt. Yeah, you know, you can't, and you can't in Canada. You might have been able to do that at one point. You might have been able to do that in other countries where the workforce is more expendable, just because there's more of them, and and we've certainly seen that with some of our big companies, with the way they operate in China, or they operate in Mexico or in Bangladesh, where human capital is, it's expendable and that's criminal, right.

Jackson Fisk: 31:05

And it absolutely is, and it should be.

Trevor Botkin: 31:08

It should be, but it's not because everyone's driven by this weird idea of capitalism, which isn't. It's not based in the idea of of and I'm not saying communism works, but I'm talking about community, right, and if you run your business the way you run the concept of community of saying I'm, as an owner, I'm responsible for hundreds of lives, I'm responsible for their spouse's wellbeing, I'm responsible for their kids, I'm responsible for their spouse's well-being, I'm responsible for their kids, I'm responsible for that. And if every business owner in the country started thinking that way and then held our politicians accountable in that same way, we would have a very different country than we do today.

Jackson Fisk: 31:53

A hundred percent, and we know that's probably not changing anytime soon.

Trevor Botkin: 31:57

So that was the other part of the business is okay, there's a need. How does it make sense? And, yeah, have a longer commute than the rest of us, so they'll have time left over if we're not quick. You mentioned when you were talking about your experience at 16, 17, 18, uh, and then towards 19, when you were leaving the military, that if you're not progressing, uh, it's not worth it to you. And so my last question to you is it still worth it to you what you're doing today?

Jackson Fisk: 32:37

Every day, every day, every, every day. It's worth it. You know there's challenges with every business where you go, wow, am I doing the right thing? But when we can make impact, um, with a worker, if we can make impact with an owner, if we can actually help lay that foundation, and every day we're moving in that right direction, so it's worth it every day.

Trevor Botkin: 33:04

People smile when they see Jackson Fisk pull up.

Jackson Fisk: 33:07

Some days Depends on what they're calling for, but yeah, it's. You know what that's the whole thing is. You want to build relationships, just like we all do, and it shouldn't be a negative thing. So when me or one of my team or representative shows up, they know that they're getting the help they need Right, and that that makes it worth it every day.

Trevor Botkin: 33:30

It's very cool, very cool. Well, look, as we bring this in this, this episode, to a close, I just want to say thank you very much, jackson, for taking the time. I know how busy you are. Uh, we've been trying to book this for a couple of weeks now, so thank you from the from the bottom of my heart for taking the time, but, uh, for sharing just, uh, really just a snapshot of your journey today you're very welcome.

Jackson Fisk: 33:53

Thank you for having me trevor, always a pleasure yeah, and I also.

Trevor Botkin: 33:56

I also want to acknowledge our outstanding members. I'm going to start with the incredible members that are out west. We've got our three groups in the Edmonton region, which is such an accountable, strong, supportive culture out west and has been for quite some time. So I'm always, always happy to talk to somebody from from Alberta, but to the rest of the country and and all our members across across Canada that are really building relationships that are continuing and investing in each other.

Trevor Botkin: 34:27

Again, it's it's always a pleasure to to be here and to to help shepherd us into this kind of new era of, let's say, accountable leadership here in Canada. And it's not just about reaching our goals but really doing so with an integrity and prioritizing safety, especially in your case, but, I think, most importantly, valuing the people who make our organizations thrive. So, as leaders, let's continue to build this culture of accountability and safety, but, I think, most importantly, personal and professional development, which is awesome. So, as always, thank you to everyone who listened today and stay tuned for more inspiring conversations with leaders who are making a very significant impact in their fields and, until next time, keep leading with vision, integrity and a commitment to excellence. And, as always. This is where leaders connect.