Trevor Botkin: 0:11

And welcome back to another episode of when Leaders Connect, the Corporate Connections podcast, where we sit down and discuss our journeys as leaders, where we're going, where we want to go and where we've come from. Today, I'm incredibly proud to have one of our members here from the Lower Laurentians, mr Maxime Belland, who's a renowned Quebec sales coach and owner of Sandler Training. Maxime has built a reputation for helping sales professionals and organizations excel by transforming the way they approach sales. With a deep understanding of the challenges faced in today's very competitive markets, max empowers his clients with the tools and strategies needed to achieve sustained success. His passion for sales and dedication to his craft have made him a sought-after coach in the industry. Join us today as we dive into his journey, his insights and tips on mastering the art of selling Without further ado. Max, welcome to Our Leaders Connect.

Maxime Béland: 1:01

Hey, trevor, thanks a lot

Trevor Botkin: 1:09

Ggreat to have you. We met over a year ago, about a year and a half ago, before we even we built the group um, and you've had kind of an interesting journey. So I, just for anyone who hasn't met you, let's maybe step back kind of the beginning, because if I'm not mistaken, you started off in real estate before getting into sales.

Maxime Béland: 1:28

Um, I still own a permit which I don't use anymore, but, um, it's like an emotional thing for me. So, anyways, I started real estate right between CGIP and university in 1997 right so just before getting in uhicordia and I did that for about 10 years, went to school, finished my degree and started this business of real estate. Worked for a big bank it was called at the time L'Evêque Beaupier-Geoffrion, now it's Financière Banque Nationale Did some work in the back office derivative market. It was fun, it was nice, met some nice people, went on the trading floor in Montreal which is not there anymore, but it was kind of exciting.

Maxime Béland: 2:20

I was like 20-something so going on the floor looking at a trader's work. But I didn't like this big old company. I wanted to own my business. So I went into real estate, did that, like I said, for 10 years, and then I stopped and I purchased a franchise, a real estate franchise. We were about like 20 something brokers at the time, so everything needed to be built from scratch, almost. So this was my journey in real estate. I built this franchise for about 10, 12 years and sold it to a company that wanted to grow and buy territory where I was, and then you stuck around for another three years in that industry before jumping over into the sales training.

Maxime Béland: 3:18

Exactly, and part of my contract was a fade out of three years. I needed to stay there to to make sure that you know panic wasn't you know, and and and stabilize the franchise and we had close to 100 brokers at the time. So we needed to to to calm everybody because when you know, when changes people don't like changes that much in in any, any industry especially in real estate. Yeah.

Trevor Botkin: 3:44

What do you miss most about running your own brokerage?

Maxime Béland: 3:49

You know I left at the right time. It was full of challenges. What I missed most maybe the interaction, the daily interaction with business owners. They're all autonomous workers, so I was there to coach them and make sure that you know, the proper behavior is the proper attitude, mindset, and it's also what was the toughest, right. We always say the joke, but it was like a big kindergarten, like people needed time, people needed attention and sometimes it's it drains energy, right. So what I miss the most, to answer your question, I think it's the interaction, the daily interaction, and see achievement. People achieve objective goals. That was nice, that was fun.

Trevor Botkin: 4:34

That's amazing. And so what was the decision process then, as you were phasing out of real estate and then going into purchasing the Sandler franchise?

Maxime Béland: 4:46

Yeah, I was sitting down with my wife having dinner and I was starting to think about my future. I wasn't sure if I wanted to do that anymore, so I sat down with her. I went to this dinner and I said I'm not sure I'm the right guy anymore to run that franchise. I'm kind of fed up. I kind of I think not that I achieved the goals I wanted, because you know we're all high achievers. But I was kind of fed up and that same week two potential buyers called me. Never happened before in 10 years before that.

Maxime Béland: 5:28

That same week two potential buyers called me to buy my franchise. Right, sure, my office. So that was kind of weird Law of attraction, I'm not sure. But and I was a client prior to that, I was a Sandler client. I was myself a client, learning the system and trying to get better at my selling techniques and everything, and I don't know. Everything happened in about six to seven months. Everything. People called me to purchase my franchise. The head office at Sandler in Baltimore wanted to expand in Quebec. And one thing added to another a year after I was a franchise owner it's an amazing story.

Trevor Botkin: 6:09

I love when the universe kind of responds quietly or, in this case, kind of loudly to an idea of, like man, maybe it's time for a change in the universe, just says well, here's your change exactly and you cannot calculate everything.

Maxime Béland: 6:23

You just need to do the move, sometimes right, and and see so it leads and um, yeah, that's it. It wasn't easy and it's still not easy.

Trevor Botkin: 6:31

You know business, owning a business is is full of challenges, but I think I'm I'm at the right place, now more than before and it sounds like you also went from having a very large daycare, or garderie, as we say here, with with over 100 people, to you and and now it's you or your own team, and and it's a very different model in terms of, you know, a solopreneur, where you're scaling up your own business again and then selling something that's a little bit less tangible perhaps than, say, real estate. Real estate's very transactional. Someone wants to buy something. What was, what's been the biggest surprise for you?

Maxime Béland: 7:11

uh, since purchasing your, your, your, franchise um, starting from scratch, I think at the age I was, I I started this like in 20, 2011, when I bought my real estate franchise. It was tough, you know, started from scratch building this company, you know, open up conversation, and I didn't realize at the time how demanding it was. So when I sold, I started back on a clean slate Older right, not that I didn't want the stress that goes with it. I wanted a challenge. But my biggest surprise is I forgot how hard it was before and starting back on a clean slate, like 15 years older, you learn a lot throughout your mistakes and your journey, but it's still starting a new business from scratch, sure, right, so, yeah, so I think that was my biggest surprise. I realized that, okay, let's do this. Let's work hard, open up conversation, meeting people, meeting folks but yeah, it's more demanding than I thought. Right, even if you have a big network, you know that's not enough.

Trevor Botkin: 8:33

And I'm assuming and again, we're both in franchise businesses, so my business is obviously a franchise and we got you know lots of our training and onboarding when you buy the franchise and they bring you up to speed and then send you off to go make your way in the world. But did all those years of running your own business, which was obviously it's a sales business buying, selling homes has that helped you be better at teaching or creating training around sales for your customers, of course, of course.

Maxime Béland: 9:09

Well, I was in the real estate, but I didn't do any real estate. My main goal was to recruit good brokers to come and work for me or with me and making them more efficient, more productive, right. So a lot of coaching was involved. So of course, it helped me to translate to today's what I'm doing today. I'm doing. I'm doing not the same thing, but you know, it's kind of the same core business but with different industries.

Trevor Botkin: 9:39

now, that's fascinating, but it sounds like you've already had. Cause that's a very entrepreneurial approach, right? Cause most, most, I would say most brokers, or most real estate people get into real estate for the quick money or I don't want to say quick money, cause that's I'm not trying to denigrate a real estate, but they go in the money's there. Uh, it's, it's an incredibly exciting because it is, you know, you're, you're bidding, you're, you're buying, you're selling, it's, it's gorgeous. Um, but you came into like let's build a team, inspire, collect these people and get them all working towards something, and and then, and then that. So it's a very different approach than, I think, most people. It's entrepreneurial as opposed to, yeah, transactional on that side, of course, did you had? You played a lot of sports when you were younger? I played hockey.

Maxime Béland: 10:30

You played hockey. I played hockey college hockey in Quebec. I stopped and you know a friend of mine had introduced me to cycling, right. So for like what? Maybe seven years years, I did some triathlons, um, but I'm more of a cyclist now than a hockey player.

Trevor Botkin: 10:51

Yeah, oh interesting. Yeah, it's uh you.

Maxime Béland: 10:54

You did the uh, the big cycling um fundraiser this year yeah, yeah, because it's it's been six years in a row now. It's been six years in a row now Des Filles, pierre Lavoie and my mom has ALS, so I'm doing this also second fundraiser every year for that cause, which is an emotional cause for me. So, yeah, it keeps me busy, training for that.

Trevor Botkin: 11:24

So you put a high number of kilometers on your bike every year. A couple of them, yeah.

Maxime Béland: 11:29

A thousand kilometers every year. Yeah Well, let's put it this way Biking for me is like therapeutic right yeah.

Trevor Botkin: 11:37

It's like a therapy.

Maxime Béland: 11:38

Yeah, we need to be focused on everything the car people like driving and you're on the road so you need to be careful on everything a car people are like driving, and you're on the road so you need to be careful.

Trevor Botkin: 11:48

So so so today, just to come back to and again I'm sorry to hear about your mom, I didn't, I actually know that she had als. Yeah, um, what's, what's the vision? Or where do you want to to take your business today with, with sandler training and, obviously, max Beland Coaching? But what's the vision?

Maxime Béland: 12:07

Well, my biggest competition Trevor is status quo right.

Maxime Béland: 12:13

It's not really the other. There's other folks that are doing the exact same thing as what I do and we're not a fit for everybody, but my competition is status quo. So for my goal is to, when I talk to a business owner, is to understand the reality, understand what they need to get better and just trying to figure out if I'm the right resource. So this is my short-term vision. Every interaction I'm having with a business owner. Long-term, I try to have my persona. I'm trying to have businesses around $10 to $30 million of not revenue but Sales Sales, sorry and a sales team between three and 10 people right. This is my core business, I think and I think Sandler is best around those companies. We work with solo entrepreneurs and we're very good at it, but I think our core and also looking at companies that are not focused on price right.

Maxime Béland: 13:19

Or selling value. Sure, and having this value conversation is sometimes it's tougher than this price conversation. So this is where I'm aiming and trying to change this idea we have for salespeople. We don't trust salespeople because we've been burned in the past and I'm trying to change that culture within my clients' organization. Sales culture is tough to change. It's been ingrained, sometimes for years and people don't like change. I'm more in the change behavior business than in a sales business and once somebody wants to change and is open-minded to change, I think there's great things that can happen.

Trevor Botkin: 14:11

Well, I mean, I would even say that Everyone's in sales and any organization, and it's just to understand, if we only think of sales as that, the kind of negotiation as being sales, we're missing the point of sales on your website. To walking in the door to you know what is your facility look like, what is your waiting room look like. You know who answers the phones, how are the phones answered? And I think there's a lot, whether you look at you know Gary Cardone or Gary Vaynerchuk or any of these other things which are more on that side is to say, at the end of the day, am I going to have a relationship with you that warrants me opening my wallet? Yeah, right, and and I think you and I have talked for the last year and I think there's a real authenticity about who you are, like you show up. I mean, if anyone's listening to this, this, this is how Max is like it, like it's calm, it's steady. It doesn't get much more than this in terms of kind of ruffled. So there's a calm, but there's a trust, right, because there's an experience.

Trevor Botkin: 15:29

I've been in your shoes. I've run a business, I've had to manage sales teams. I didn't know that Me. No, I'm saying you have. No, I don't, I've. I've always, I've always shied away from sales, because it was too easy for me to get into that kind of the cheesy sales thing, and so I've always been on the opposite side of it is is I don't, I don't. I don't want to be in a position where I feel like I'm selling you something. I want to be in a position where I feel like I'm selling you something. I want to be in a position where I feel like I'm helping you make the right decision and that may mean my product is not right for you, exactly.

Maxime Béland: 16:06

What does it sell? What sells all about right Sell is about helping someone make the right decision Right, and fully accepting that it might not be me Right.

Trevor Botkin: 16:17

But I think the challenge comes and this could be a really interesting discussion. But the challenge comes if there's a disconnect between what you think the right decision is for them and what they think the right decision is. Because sometimes we may see, you know, if they come in and they say I want apples, and you're looking at that and from your experience you're saying I can sell this person apples, I can sell them apples all day long, but what they really need is pears. And so I may say, you know, it might behoove you to look at pears, like we can look at pears, I can give you apples. But I think you're falling into a trap here of saying what you need is apples when from experience, you really need pears. And so that's where they're like wow, no, I know better, I need apples and it's.

Trevor Botkin: 17:07

It's funny the number of times I've seen where somebody's come back and said you know what? You're right, I really did need pears. But we get so fixated on what we think we need or what we want and it it takes a certain level of maturity to listen to somebody else who's saying yes, I know, I hear what you you, what you want or what you think you need, but there's also a a, a deeply uh. There's a real need there that maybe you don't hear, or you're just from experience, or where your business is, um, or what your product is, yeah, uh, you know what I mean on that.

Maxime Béland: 17:42

So I think that's interesting but one thing I keep on repeating my client is, is, and to the point you're making is people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care, right, so you need to be open-minded and ask questions, and sometimes tough, tough questions, right, and it's tough for us to ask us I mean salespeople to ask tough questions, but it's our job. It's our job to reduce their guards, make sure that we're creating this open environment, safe environment to share one another pains, problems, share numbers, and once that guard is down, they lower their guards and they're open to share. Now it's a real conversation. Integrity, right, is the main key here, and selling without integrity, I think it's manipulation, right, and this is what we're afraid of salespeople and this is the stereotype we're having, right, People see us as salespeople and they have the right to do so because they've been burned in the past, like I said. So it's our job to reduce that, that lower their guards. And Sandler I don't want to pitch Sandler here, but Sandler is about communication, right, it's not a training yeah, it's a training model, but it's more of a communication model with sales components right Within that communication model.

Maxime Béland: 19:14

And people, like I said, people don't care much you know until they know how much you care. So you need to make sure that you understand their needs, their pain. If there's no pain, there's no sale, and I think I cannot convince anybody. I have three daughters at home plus my wife. I stopped trying to convince people. It's too hard, I'm not that smart. But if you ask the right questions, if you make sure that they understand their pain, they quantify that pain, monetize that pain, they can come up with the right solution for them. Right and uh. But but it's our. It's tough. Our job is to build that environment and it's not always easy, Do you?

Trevor Botkin: 19:55

think um being a father and a husband and having three daughters has helped you in some way to be a sales coach?

Maxime Béland: 20:07

Of course, of course, in many ways, trevor. First of all, listening, right, resiliency, asking questions and make sure I understand, right? Because, uh, teenagers they're, they're, sometimes they're tough. I don't want to be a teenager. It was, you know, it's tough to be a teenager, right?

Trevor Botkin: 20:27

I can't imagine being a teenager today. I have, I have an 11 year old and I'm, I'm, I mean, you're the same age as me, we're both. You're 1976. 76. Yeah, exactly, yeah, so same age. And you know, there's all this stuff on Facebook about us, our generation Gen X. But it's true, you know, like none of my friends had phones with cameras. You know like I'd ride around on my BMX to look for my friends and find them, because there's a pile of BMXs out in front of their house and pull up and go in the pool, and it's just as complex as it was for us in terms of the interpersonal relationships. We had none of the external influences that we have today YouTube, tiktok, instagram and that and I already look at my 11 year old and I look at what influences hers and it's so more challenge. And she's a girl, which obviously is a boy. I've had the advantage of not having to have all the complexity of being a girl and I can't even imagine, Can't?

Maxime Béland: 21:33

even fathom.

Trevor Botkin: 21:34

No, and it's unfair. No, and it's unfair. It continues to be a world where the we still have these gender know it's all been made up and this is not how that person looks in real life, and my daughter will never look like that in real life, and so you know the the job then becomes how do we, how do I support that without just locking her in a world where there is no social media, Cause all our friends have access to it.

Maxime Béland: 22:17

You know it's impossible you need to deal with that and make sure that. Yeah, it's, it's a tough world for teenagers and, um, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to be a teenager today.

Trevor Botkin: 22:26

No, myself, no well, if I knew what I knew today and can go back and have the uh, the joints, the, um, the, the lack of being sore every time I get out of bed in the morning, um, I would take, I would take the, yeah, the fitness that I had at 20. Um, yeah, but it's uh. There's one of those things on social media where someone says I don't know if I'm hurt or if I'm always going to feel like this, so, but uh, there's a couple times I, yeah, this summer, I move morning, yeah, like, oh, man, so, but you know, there's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of our contemporaries who are, you know, and certainly members in in cc, that have, 10 years on me, better shape than I'm in and stay fit, and so it's just a matter of staying fit, prioritizingizing health. On that, what do you?

Trevor Botkin: 23:19

What do you? What are you most excited about? As you kind of were were halfway or over halfway through 2024? We're heading into kind of that fall blitz of the end of 2024, q3, Q4. What are you most excited about as you kind of move back into the back to school season?

Maxime Béland: 23:44

excited about as you kind of move back into back to school season. Um, my, my client, every day I'm trying to right ask for uh, okay, why, why do we started this together? And you know I'm doing it for me more than anything else, because it I like to to know am I relevant to people, right? So what I'm most excited is to find those, those people that don't know, sandler, that don't know what can you bring for them and what we can do for them. That's exciting, but at the same time it's hard, because you know I'm a salesperson right.

Maxime Béland: 24:15

So I need to overcome those stereotypes. Salesperson right, so I need to overcome those stereotypes. And then, like I said before, my competition is really status quo, not somebody else. So this is the challenge, and it's exciting at the same time, right Making sure that I'm always trying to refine my conversation with potential clients. It's a never ending job.

Trevor Botkin: 24:41

And I guess the minute people find out you're a sales coach, they'll instantly put up the armor of Exactly Well, if he's a good sales coach, he's already selling me. It's like when you meet a hypnosis or hypnotist and everyone makes the same joke, is like are you hypnotizing me now? And you go no, it's not how it works. Yeah, but I assume it's the same thing for you.

Maxime Béland: 25:10

Everyone's like like oh, sales coach, okay, you know so. And this word coach today? Right, anybody can, can be a coach of anything, right so? But there's no other words but coaching. Coaching is is you know who in life doesn't like to or wouldn't like to have the help of somebody else? Right, take Tiger Woods, take Federer right, they all have coach. Tiger Woods has a coach and I think his coach never won as many Masters as he won, right, but no athletes ever won anything without a coach.

Trevor Botkin: 25:40

That's it, it doesn't exist. But I also think you know it and it's it's kind of so. When I was in in marketing and and this came up a number of times where I'd switched out of one profession, I'd moved into another one, but I didn't want to say I was in branding or marketing, like, just to me, people's eyes glaze over the minute you say that. Probably in the same way we say I'm a real estate agent, people, people just like, okay, moving on, all right, and so I repositioned it as a narrative business designer. And instantly people are like well, I don't know what that is. And I go well, you have a company. Yeah, does your company have a story? Yeah, does everyone in your company know how to tell that story? And do they all tell the same story? And Does everyone in your company know how to tell that story? And do they all tell the same story? And they're like probably not. I go, that's what I do, no-transcript, but it opened doors for conversations. And the same thing for you sales is storytelling.

Maxime Béland: 26:43

Yeah, it is.

Trevor Botkin: 26:51

You know. So it's, it's. It's helping people understand their story and then, and then your potential customer, do they fit in that narrative or not? And if they do, then you've opened the door to to that and it's just. I think I love what you said earlier at the beginning of just shifting mindsets and helping people understand. You know it's. It's not the. You know finger guns can help you get in that new car sales thing. It's not. It's not abc right, always be closing it's training is on an event.

Maxime Béland: 27:22

Right, it's a process. Right, it's like driving a straight ball, like down the fairway. It's. I can't watch tiger would drive for an hour, two hours, but I need to go at one point of the driving range and, you know, fail and learn and then and if I have a coach watching me, it's even better, right, yeah, but it's not an event and a lot of people in business see training, whatever training, sales or whatever as an event. Sure, come to my sales annual meeting, come and boost my team for two hours and I'll go if you want to pay. But you know, I think it's, you're throwing your money out, you're throwing it away, right, so it's not, it's um, it's not an event. And, uh, you can't. Like, there's a book. Sandra wrote a book many years ago. You can teach a kid to ride a bike at a seminar. Right, it's a terrific book.

Trevor Botkin: 28:13

It's behind you on the shelf. It looks like that's it.

Maxime Béland: 28:18

So, so, so, if you want to read a good book on mindset and growing your, whatever you want to grow, the title says it. All right. You can't teach a kid to write if I get a seminar, so that's another of my challenge right? If you want to pay, all right. And one other thing is you always repeat what you don't repair, right, right. And you don't know sometimes what you need't repair, right, right, so. And you don't know sometimes what you need to repair. So you need somebody with a, you know, a bird's eye view of okay, let's figure out if you need to repair this, if there's value in investing effort, time and money in fixing those problems. Maybe there's no value, maybe status quo is the right thing. But yeah, you always repeat what you don't repair. I say that to my kids. Right, like you, you, what you tolerate, your encourage at the same time. And, and you know, whatever you don't fix, you you repeat right, so, um, there's.

Trevor Botkin: 29:18

There's nothing more frustrating. I do a lot of do-it-your and and it's that moment, whether it's working on the car or the house, and you know, when you're you're doing something and you're like, oh, I should really put something under there just in case I spill. And you're like, no, it's just faster, I'll do it. And then you spill and you're like I knew better and it's, and it's, and it's that way in business, where we're like you know, I should really double check whether or not that was done, and you're like, no, it was probably done. And then that's the customer who calls you and says this wasn't done or you know, and it, I don't care what business, it is that that assumption or thinking it's good enough and it's, it's the's, it's the perfectionists, it's the people who are driven by demanding the questions and figuring it out and never assuming and just and really kind of pushing themselves and then pushing everyone or inspiring everyone. And so I love this idea of building sales culture as opposed to sales process, yeah, and this idea of saying everyone is responsible to make sure our customers know how valuable they are and that they made a choice to do business with us. We didn't manipulate them, they made that choice. Let's make them right for making that choice. Let's make them feel really good about that decision every day that they're with us, and I love that. I love that about your approach, I love that about what you're doing and I'm pretty excited to have you in the community for that sense, all right, beautiful.

Trevor Botkin: 30:49

Well, thank you, max, for being on the show today. Well, thanks for inviting me. Sure, it's, uh, it's great to have you. It's great to have you in our community on that. So you know, and and, and I think, as we wrap up this episode of where leaders connect, again, huge thanks to you, max, for, for those who don't know, it's a new group that that Max joined but was one of the leaders kind of in there early, helping build it and and putting his faith and trust in us. So I'm going to thank you for that. All right, and I want to thank you today for sharing your story, cause it's not just that personal, but I love that professional sort of transformation and moving through as a serial entrepreneur, that you've bought your second franchise. I think that's pretty, pretty cool. I'm excited to see what you do over the coming years within Sandler in your own business.

Maxime Béland: 31:42

Thanks, trevor, again thanks for inviting me and it's been, yeah, I think, our CC group. Bas Lagan, I think it's the best one so far.

Trevor Botkin: 31:54

right, you know they're all the best one. Whoever I'm talking to, I will say you know, in terms of what your groups built and with people like Brigitte and Pascal and Mary, christine and Annie and Francois, the twins, and everyone, alex, alexandre, what you've built as a group is special. I won't say it's the best. I will say it's very unique, it's very special. But, again, you're all coming from north of Montreal. You're not Montreal members, you're, you're Baselat Antide, which is also a very special part of our province. I would say magical, especially if you ski and like to get outside and mountain bike. But I think it's also, um, the kind of people that you've built around are all in growth mode and are authentic, um, and it's the same way that Wolfpack is very different, you know, and, but they're South shore and again, they're not Montreal. So you know, um, I'm excited to see the what the group does, but again it's it's just a really lovely um, um mix of business owners and entrepreneurs and yeah, I'm just talking on the best thing, that's um.

Maxime Béland: 33:09

Do you have? Do you have a best?

Maxime Béland: 33:10

daughter yeah, but I just tell her, I don't tell the other ones, um, but you know, I think integrity, I think is the key here. Um, yeah, we integrity. Yeah, I think people in that group there is something different. I've been in a lot of different networking groups. They're all nice people, right, I don't come across like bad people, they're all nice people. But this group there's something different. So and it's unique for me. Anyways, from the experience I had with previous business groups, I think this one is just unique.

Trevor Botkin: 33:51

It's pretty special. It's pretty special, but it's and it's a, it's a gift for me and it's a gift for Kai, as, as business owners, to to be surrounded by other business owners that inspire us, but also the challenges and that and that push us. So, and with that, I think, I think it's it's good for me to also acknowledge the members of of CC Canada, uh, which is a community dedicated to fostering relationships that lead to meaningful change. And I think, as leaders, we we do have a unique opportunity, and I would say even like a, uh, a responsibility, to not only impact our local communities. But for me personally, my aspiration is to is to make the world a better place, not to change the world, cause I don't, I don't think it's about changing the world, I just like let's make it better, let's make it suck less, cause for a lot of people, the world sucks. So, um, it's through conversations like this that, I think, you know, we start to understand each other better and have opportunities to maybe make the world suck less on that. So, max, thanks, you're welcome, you're welcome, thanks to you, and thanks to all our listeners for tuning in today. We hope today's episode has sparked some new ideas, perspectives, maybe, that you can bring into your own journey.

Trevor Botkin: 35:00

I'll make sure that I put the contact information for Max Sandler training, but his own, his own link. I'll put that in the liner notes. So if you want to reach out to Max, that you can do that. You can also find them on LinkedIn. Until next time, keep connecting, keep leading, keep making a difference and, as always, this is where leaders connect.