Trevor Botkin: 0:10

and welcome back to another episode of where leaders connect the corporate connections podcast, where we sit down with corporate connections canada members and talk about what makes them tick, what makes them get excited and gets them up in the morning and runs them through the day. My name is tre Trevor Botkin, I am the National Director of Corporate Connections Canada, and today we have an exciting conversation lined up with a visionary entrepreneur who's transforming the way the landscaping industry sources materials. Joining me is Michael Bellows, co-founder and CEO of GoMaterials, a groundbreaking B2B marketplace that is streamlining the procurement of landscaping supplies. Under Michael's leadership, go Materials has revolutionized an industry traditionally reliant on time-consuming manual processes by leveraging technology to create efficiency, transparency and ease of access of contractors and suppliers alike. And so, without further ado, let's jump right in, michael. Welcome back to Where Leaders Connect.

Michael Bellows: 1:04

Thank you, thank you how you doing.

Trevor Botkin: 1:06

I'm good, I'm good, how are you doing? Fantastic, and I say welcome back because this is not your first episode with us. I think you recorded with um, I think it was dave, and you did an episode in season one. I didn't, I didn't even remember that, so yeah, it's good to be back, I guess yeah, season three, go, go, season three.

Trevor Botkin: 1:25

there you go. What's interesting, though, is just, I think I mean, if we go all the way back to the beginning when I met you, I think it was um late 2018, early 2019, and it was you and your I think it was two partners, and there was maybe three or four of you in the business when I first met you and then, if we fast forward to, I guess, 2021, 2022, when you did your first episode with us and then today, the growth is has been pretty explosive, and so maybe you can touch on that real quickly. Where are you today?

Michael Bellows: 2:04

Yeah, a lot has changed since the idea came to be. So today we are about 75 team members across 11 countries and the business operates in Canada and the US. In Canada it's in Quebec and Ontario, and the US about 20 states, but mostly focused in the southeast, so everywhere between Texas and Florida.

Trevor Botkin: 2:36

I guess we should take it step by step. So 75 employees across 11 countries, yeah, and I assume some of that is software development in other countries that's correct.

Michael Bellows: 2:48

That's correct. So none of them. It's all all treated as a direct team members, so, but we do, um, we don't really. When it comes to recruitment, it's person first, location second. Okay, so, depending on the role, uh, we, uh, we are, I mean, flexible with location. So the my leadership team is all actually based in montreal. Um, but depending on the team and if you're a manager or not, it can, it can vary between uh, between it's about 50, 50 today between Montreal and then just elsewhere.

Trevor Botkin: 3:27

When, if we, if we go back to and I still remember the first breakfast we had together, I think it was, it was full of snow too, it was winter, um, and we had that, that awesome little breakfast over our just just South of uh Sherbrooke.

Trevor Botkin: 3:42

I remember that it was like universe, I think we had breakfast at, and I was like, oh, that's a cute idea, like that's interesting. But you just, you just left pepsico and you just had this great idea and I, and I think it was the three of you, maybe four of you, and you were just starting out and you still had your long hair because you're growing it out, for I think it was your cousin, uh, locks for love, yeah, a friend of mine for a friend of yours, and I was like, oh, this is interesting. And then, and then today you're running a business that is, uh, one of the fastest growing businesses in Canada and has kind of set a gold standard for at least within CC Canada in terms of, like, what's possible, of of leveraging the network, but of just growth. What for you, if you think back, what's been the biggest surprise of the last six years?

Michael Bellows: 4:36

it's honestly, uh, just the mindset towards facing challenges never goes away. And when I say mindset towards facing challenges, it's just like when you I mean when I look back six years ago when we had a problem it was a really big deal, Right. And then today that problem is no longer even thought about as a as a as a big deal, because you're you're continuously just facing bigger and more complex challenges. So the idea of it becoming easier, like, doesn't really happen. It's just your mindset towards how you look at problems and instead of looking at them as and then from a negative lens, and you look at it from a positive lens and know that there's a solution on the other side. I know that there's more around the corner and I don't know what it's going to be, but I know we're going to be able to figure it out.

Trevor Botkin: 5:31

Has your relationship with your role or how you see your role as a leader, as the CEO, co-founder? Has that changed?

Michael Bellows: 5:41

Drastically, I would say. I think it's a continuous job description that, depending on the size of company, that job description and requirements and even skill set, it changes all the time. I think if you're a slower growing business, you can adapt at a slower growing pace. The way I look at it is like what is my job description this quarter? What am I responsible for? And that now no longer lasts a year like that last 90 days if not less at this point. So it's just the continuous adaptation of what is required of me and then the mindset of where do I need to grow and focus on leveling up my leadership.

Trevor Botkin: 6:26

And how much time do you or do you even set aside time for personal development, and if so, how much time? I guess that's the better way to ask it.

Michael Bellows: 6:35

Yeah, so I'm a part of a few different like forum type groups, not necessarily just with corporate connections, but I'm a part of another one as well and it's a lot of peer-to-peer and then a lot of informal in a way. So where I'm Like mentorship, yeah, exactly Because there's an executive coach program I work with right now and they have biannual retreats and those have been extraordinarily, uh helpful. And then I think what's important is just like continuous learning. Right, like you know, I mean I'm a big reader and and big audiobook person, so it's like I'm easily crushing through, uh, I mean two, three new books per month, um, and just always having that learning mindset. And you don't necessarily need to apply everything, but sometimes one or two nuggets that you can slip in right away and and and add to it. But I think it's it's very continuous.

Trevor Botkin: 7:33

What's at the top of your list right now for for books you've read that are either still percolating in your brain or that cause I know when I read a book I tend to be very vocal with everyone I talked to about the book of the month or the flavor that were cause it shifts mindset and at least for me it does Like when, when I get into I mean the subtle art of not giving an F. Uh, when I read that one, it shifted how I looked at everything for months afterwards. So what, what for you is a book that right now is kind of prickling at the top of your you're either a sub or or conscious mind so that's a good question.

Michael Bellows: 8:10

I actually uh, started a book club with another cc member and we're only two in our book club today, but we started small. We've read, uh, we're on our fourth book this year, so shout out, judy murphy um, but how come I didn't get an invite to the book club? That was actually probably my fault, because I told her I needed to stay two people because, like my schedule, I can't. I can't do another doodle, that's awesome coordinate.

Michael Bellows: 8:34

So I was like let's do a first few ourselves, figure out the format that we'd like two is not a club.

Trevor Botkin: 8:39

That's that's a, that's a, but that's awesome. Okay, sorry, I Sorry, I digress.

Michael Bellows: 8:45

That's what her dad said as well. We have a logo, generated by Jesse as well, that we use in the format. We actually follow a format and then a discussion points. Of course you do, it's, it's with Judy.

Trevor Botkin: 8:58

I mean, you're probably the two most process driven people I know, so I get that that there's. There's a logo, there's a process, there's probably an agenda You're you probably take notes afterward and there's a yeah.

Michael Bellows: 9:12

And there's accountability in your top three from the book. And then are you what are you going to do to apply to your life All of it?

Trevor Botkin: 9:18

That's probably why I did not get an invite, because that sounds onerous to. To the cowboy in me that goes what do you mean? Accountability?

Michael Bellows: 9:26

it was actually. I remember when judy asked me if we should invite anybody else and I was like I can't fill out a doodle, so it's like a if. Like let's start small and then we can build off of this. That's awesome. I digress.

Michael Bellows: 9:38

So, uh, actually it was measure. What matters is, uh is the thing you know. That has been on my mind. So so that's the OKR methodology book. So, from Google and Intel and GoMaterials has been using the OKR methodology for objective and key results setting now for probably just over a year. I actually had not read the book prior to that, so we've been implementing it across the board, yeah, which is actually an interesting way to do it, because now I read the book and realized we definitely added our own GoMaterials spin on it, but I still got a lot from it and that has actually caused me to create my individual personal OKRs. So GoMaterials has its annual and quarterly OKRs and then those get broken up into my team. So tech, sales, operation, finance. But now I actually just have created my own for my life, gomaterials included, which was an interesting first exercise that I started about a month ago.

Trevor Botkin: 10:41

And do you use a? Is it paper-based, or do you use a system to manage your OKRs?

Michael Bellows: 10:47

So we actually use like a Google Sheets template that we had built internally, but it works really well. So we use it and share it across the organization and I mean, the company has a tab and each sub-team has a tab, so it works really well. I don't know if it's the most sustainable thing, but, like, when it comes to staying lean and scrappy, it was one of those softwares that I didn't really like think it was gonna be groundbreaking to to adopt and we were doing just fine in the in our free google sheets no, that makes a lot of sense.

Trevor Botkin: 11:19

I I think and I think we and we touched about it just before we we hit the record button was some of the market volatility that we're seeing right now with a new administration south of the border. Now you're based in Montreal, you do business on both sides of the border, but you don't cross the border with materials.

Michael Bellows: 11:43

We do you do A little, yeah, you don't cross the border with materials, we do, you do, yeah. So about half. I actually looked at this other day to see what was at risk when it was announced. So we did about half a million dollars of material from Canada to the US. Nothing from the US to Canada for obvious exchange rate reasons. So technically speaking, there's half a million total, which is like not not a big risk to us, uh, overall, from like a percentage standpoint of the business.

Michael Bellows: 12:13

Um, because then canada sources to canada and the us sources to the us, there's a lot of cross province and cross state line, but that is not impacted. So, luckily, tariffs are something we don't necessarily have to think about, although I do know that there's other things coming down the pipeline and Canadian companies just operating in the US can be at risk for different types of new taxes and so on and so forth. So I'm definitely buckled into my seat here and I'm curious to see what's going to uh unfold over the next uh next few years are there advantages to opening a gold materials in, say, delaware or rhode island?

Michael Bellows: 12:55

definitely we don't have, like other whatever 75 people. We're probably like four in the? U very small, uh, um, small amount. It's one of those things that's on the, it's on the list of things to do at some point. It just hasn't been, uh, hasn't been, a top priority of the last year, because it really happened. Our growth in the U? S happened very fast. Right, we were probably a hundred percent Canadian, 0% U S four years ago and now we're 75% US, 25% Canadian and the reality is just, because of the size of the market, that 75 is going to turn into 99 over the next few years is just the truth, it's also environmental right.

Trevor Botkin: 13:37

So I remember when I was in Florida and doing construction, we were able to plant and do landscaping year round. There wasn't. I mean, yes, there's a wet season, but you just kind of lived with it. It wasn't exactly. Here. Today I've got five feet of snow in front of my house. You were not planting today no, no, no, yeah.

Michael Bellows: 13:55

So our revenues in quebec they go to zero for about four months a year. Right, so we had to. We had to expand early on to the? U. The decision there was to sell a new product to the same customer, which was the only product our customers were buying in the winter salt, and that wasn't going to work because it's fairly, it's pretty much a monopoly, so no need for a B2B marketplace when an industry is a monopoly or an oligopoly. So, uh, the decision was to then same customer profile, new market and then same product, so that we had started our expansion down so pretty early because of the? Uh, the seasonality of the canadian business. Do you feel?

Trevor Botkin: 14:38

that that you've reached a position where you're innovating less today and more getting into just straight acquisition of new, because it's a marketplace. So and and and. The business model to me is super robust and super clear in terms of turning what had been you know binders and you know paper catalogs of that, and turning that into an online marketplace, which obviously reduces complexity, makes ordering easier and you're able to help people get materials faster, and then, obviously, the vendors are able to get their money faster. So there's a, it's a, it's a needed, a brilliant solution to a problem that people were just either too lazy or too overwhelmed to solve themselves. So, but are you still innovating in that space or is it now just okay? Let's acquire market.

Michael Bellows: 15:29

It's both and in terms of innovation, it's more than ever Really. So what we are doing from a technology and AI standpoint right now is insane. It is. We're at a really exciting time and our focus right now comes down to really two things it's grow right, grow the business, and it's continuing to disrupt and innovate through technology. So our technology team has probably tripled in the past year, six months, um, and that's also helped to uh, some government funding to support our um, our ai roadmap. So that has made it made a really big difference a few months ago, where we were able to accelerate our product and technology roadmaps and then hire more, uh because of that. But, um, yeah, the the team members were onboarding, from a technology standpoint, our current team. It's just incredible what we have coming down the pipeline.

Michael Bellows: 16:32

I've never been as excited as I am today about what we are doing from an innovation technology standpoint for the business. I can say that honestly, candidly, because it is really really exciting and we can see the direct impact of all these product and technology releases. We can see the direct impact onto our people, on productivity, on the financials, on the profitability, everything. So it's really on our customer success right, delivering what we call our gold standard experience is improving day uh, day over day. So it is uh, it is at it's uh at a new level, I can say, and even in six months from now we'll be again at a whole other new level, which is awesome.

Trevor Botkin: 17:16

That's incredible. It's absolutely incredible. Who's who's the biggest competitor to what you're doing right now? Or are you really so niche in terms of that space that no one's really kind of taken advantage of, of the opportunity that you're now taking advantage of?

Michael Bellows: 17:29

so there, there are a few direct competitors but a lot of substitutes, right? So we're really, at the end of the day, our customers are sourcing and and getting plants and trees delivered, regardless through grow materials or not, so we're not delivering them a new product. What we are innovating is how they get the product, which is 10x more efficient. So, when we look at it that way, we really only have one or two direct competitors that are US-based. But then, of course, one of our competitors has just changed. It's the idea that I've been working with the same 2 suppliers for the last 25 years and there's a mindset shift. And although I can guarantee that our service offering when it comes to quality of material and delivery time, accuracy and all those important things for our customers, I guarantee that we're over I mean time we're, we're, we're definitely at the best. It's just a matter of I mean, sometimes people are just stuck on their rights and they need a little shake up to, to change, to change habits for for the better, and that's that's what we're hoping to do.

Trevor Botkin: 18:42

And I guess for the lay person it would almost be like you're the the Amazon of landscape materials.

Michael Bellows: 18:47

That's so funny that you say that, because that grant that we got, that's the project name. Okay, so that that that mega technology grant that's basically what the, the the name of it was like steps towards the Amazon landscape construction. So that's, that's definitely the way we talk about it with our government partners.

Trevor Botkin: 19:09

Right. And then I assume it's also one of those things that at some point there will be enough disruption that a larger player, whether it's a Home Depot or a Rona or somebody, will come in and just want to acquire Go materials, because it becomes such a risk to their core business or becomes large enough that they say, if we don't, then we become like it's cannibalizing their landscape sales because it's just easier. Easier in the same way that, because you're not a brick and mortar, because you're not carrying the cost of, of warehousing, you're not carrying the cost of some of these other ones that a brick and mortar would carry, you're doing to Amazon what Amazon did to bookstores in so many ways. In some ways, because you're able to, you're just. You're just the marketplace.

Michael Bellows: 20:03

Yeah, I would say that's definitely true in some ways. When it just comes down to overhead and distribution and trucking, it's definitely significantly. We don't have anything.

Trevor Botkin: 20:13

It's zero.

Michael Bellows: 20:14

It's a data play more than it is a product play. So, yeah, definitely that could happen down the line, who knows?

Trevor Botkin: 20:22

Who knows, but you heard it here first. So if it it happens, it's because we planted the seed. Somebody listening to going oh my gosh, we need to pay attention to go materials because through it you're not a brick and mortar and, um, you know, even even amazon and we just saw that recently here with the closure of the amazon warehouses and part of it just cost analysis the minute you start putting that much money into real estate and that and go, there is always someone who's going to deliver for less than you are. And it's just the reality of it because of the way of an open and a free market works. Is you know if, unless there's collusion, the prices have to come down for people to compete with each other?

Michael Bellows: 21:06

It's innovation. You're not going to. You're not going to change or die, as they say. You're not going to. You need to adapt and change to the new world.

Trevor Botkin: 21:14

Now I know you're somebody just from experience, or someone that um and it's one thing I love about you is when we talked, uh, after Mexico and we talked after london. You're someone who always um, writes a letter to yourself, emails and then emails that it gets automatically delivered a year after you you've written it, and so, and to me, that's something that's so forward thinking. And you know you plan, you, you are always looking forward and trying to figure out where the opportunity or where to go and and kind of pivot and push and innovate. And I know that you also make the tough decisions, whereas someone like me I wouldn't, I would not want to make or be in a position also make the tough decisions, whereas someone like me, I wouldn't, I would not want to make or be in a position to make those tough decisions. And and this is just a long way of leading up to this question, which is what are you most excited about in 2025? Cause I know you've put a lot of thought into into this year.

Michael Bellows: 22:22

I would just say it's like, more than ever you mean our path to becoming you mean a unicorn business and becoming a billion dollar company has never been more clear to me.

Michael Bellows: 22:34

Right in early days of startups and companies, there's, you mean, the classic shining object syndrome, where you want to say yes to so many different things that are not necessarily all in your wheelhouse, and when you say yes to all customer types and all product, it's such a classic mistake and, coming from experience made up several times, it's like I've never had more conviction around.

Michael Bellows: 22:58

We just have such a clear path to where we want to go and how to get there. Obviously, we can improve it and we're going to be able to optimize it on so many different levels, but generally speaking, we know how we're going to get there. We understand what is important with our product and technology roadmap and we understand how we go to market and speak with our customers and our suppliers, and it's all about just adding fuel to both those fires and taking steps forward. And what's really cool is that we're just in control over how fast those steps are. So there are so many different options for us to get to that point those steps are, so there's so many different options for us to get to that point. But the idea of getting to that point is no longer an if. It is now a when, and that's what I'm really excited about. There's a lot of confidence in what we're doing and the value add behind it, and there's just something really beautiful in the simplicity of how we're going to do it.

Trevor Botkin: 24:05

I love that idea of just continuously evolving, to keep it simple, and this elegant solution. That is a win-win Because ultimately, I think that's what's amazing is that your end users, the landscape, the architects they're winning. And then the companies who are producing the landscaping materials they're winning, and then the companies who are producing the landscaping materials they're winning, and then you also have the shipping companies that are coming out ahead, because you're able to feed three different industries with one solution, one product, which I think is quite interesting. And you're building this beautiful company of 75 and it's continuing to grow.

Michael Bellows: 24:46

Yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly how we I mean me and my partners, and the whole organization thinks about it. So we're in a cool spot. But to bring it back to the beginning of our conversation, there's a sucker punch that's coming across and it's coming one of these days and we don't know when it's going to be or what it's going to be, but guarantee those challenges are never going to go go away. So there's a lot of simplicity in there, but very aware that there's going to be new challenges that we never even thought of that are going to come up. One thing I do know is it's always a it's always better to fix the roof when it's sunny and not when it's raining, and that is what kind of never settling to me is about. Even if you're coming off of an amazing year or a great month or a great quarter, it's how we're renovating, how we're making things better, and that's the. It goes back to fixing the roof when it's sunny, not when it's raining.

Trevor Botkin: 25:43

With a company that's so in so many ways decentralized, with 75 employees across 11 countries, how do you, as the co-founder and CEO, how do you go about creating relationships with people that you can't just kind of roll up on at the water cooler or in the lunch room or just have them stop by with with your office door open? How do you, how do you create and foster those relationships?

Michael Bellows: 26:10

it's really hard. I'm not gonna sit here and pretend like we are doing a great job at it. I think we're actually doing an average at best. Um, so that's something we actually is on our HR and people teams. To do right now is just like overall team cohesion and engagement especially from our folks that are virtual and join in virtually to our annual kickoffs and they join in virtually to our monthly town halls is how do we make it and then feel more included, and I think we can do way better.

Michael Bellows: 26:46

Um, I will say it's like when I mean, if we go back to the holiday season back in December, it's we're doing multiple events and some of them are online, and our awards ceremony is done online as well, and even though they're not joining us for the dinner, it's like we are treating them to their dinners at home. So what we're doing is we're trying right, but it's not amazing, it's probably not good, but it's definitely important.

Michael Bellows: 27:16

But I'm not going to say that it's easy, because the reality is it's really easy to develop a relationship with someone that you're walking by at the office a few times a week. The whole virtual world is a whole other game, so it's definitely something we need to do better at. But I think it really comes down to just making sure there's alignment and where the company is going and some consistent meetings. So we have a weekly, a monthly, a weekly all hands. I mean Monday morning 9am. We have a 15 minute call every single week with the whole company. I think that helps. I think our monthly town halls help. I think our quarterly events help. So there is stuff that we are doing, but I definitely want to be better.

Trevor Botkin: 27:59

That's awesome. We, we, we talked a little bit and even before we hit record, we talked a little bit some of the struggles of being an entrepreneur and being a leader, and you know the continual two by four to the face sometimes when running a business, whether it's cash flow or or HR or other governments imposing policy that may affect us. On the other side of the coin, there are definite upsides, um, and some of them are obviously well documented, well known. What, for you, do you love the most about your position of being a leader of this business?

Michael Bellows: 28:36

so I think for me it comes down to the people side of it, right? I've always been a fairly people guy. You know me pretty, pretty well now, after uh, I don't even know what five or six years uh within cc at this point almost seven.

Michael Bellows: 28:52

Yeah, good, solid six for sure um, so yeah, so that side of it, I find, uh, it's. It's a hard side right and people are all different and complex, but it's really fun right, and especially when you watch people succeed and become proud of themselves because of what they're able to accomplish within the business. It's so awesome. It's so awesome to see that happen and then to be able to give more opportunities to new people and create roles and create teams and have that be all within because of an idea that three of us had six or seven years ago. It's crazy. We're very lucky that we're able to do this. It's really cool. Very lucky that we were able to uh to do this. It's really cool.

Trevor Botkin: 29:44

That's amazing. Do you ever read um? I'm trying to remember I think I have it on my my things here Um the um the dream manager. I have not.

Trevor Botkin: 30:00

Can't say what's it. I don't know if I have it. Anyway, it's'm going to. I'm going to get this wrong probably. But what I took away from it was this idea was a cleaning company that high turnover, because it's people doing, you know, cleaning like janitorial services and um, long, long story short, and come up with the idea of saying that everybody in his employ has a dream and that it was the manager's job. And they actually created a position within the company of somebody called the dream manager to say I'm going to sit with you, I'm going to, I understand your dream and then how, within the context of working for us, can we help you achieve your dream? And so some people was I want to, I want to learn, uh, and a lot of them came from immigrant background, so it was to be better in English. So they created an English as a second language academy within the company so people could be better at it.

Trevor Botkin: 31:08

Um, uh, one woman was um early on in this initiative. She wanted to own her own home, and so they brought in a wealth advisor who helped figure out to within her cashflow with the company and how to leverage that to get her her first home, and then how to leverage that to get her first home. And then, once she had bought her, bought her home everyone else in the company went whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You mean, we can actually achieve our dreams. And he just saw the power of and it's something I learned when I was running hotels. I had a gentleman that I learned, one of my mentors, who went and sat with everyone says, look, I know your dream probably wasn't to clean bedrooms and make beds every day, so what is your dream and how, within the context of you being a housekeeper, can we elevate you so that you can go after your dream, so I get the best of you, so that, not because it's good for me, but because we can get you to where you want to go in life. And there was such a beautiful empowerment of acknowledging that you may not be working for me, because it satisfies where you want to be in life. How do we use that as a stepping stone to get you where you want to go so we can mutually celebrate? And I hear some of that when you talk, this idea of kind, of creating a mutually benefit environment. So, anyway, that's one of those on my list Um, kind of um.

Trevor Botkin: 32:39

The other one was the Steve Farber one greater than yourself. That one's here on my, but there was a one that I love, which was where he talks all about love. And I met Steve years ago at a CC conference in Thailand, and because this whole book is about love, like you have to love what you have to do, your customers have to know that when they're dealing with any of your employees, this, this feeling of love, and I asked them I said I said, look, steve loves a loaded word. You know, like why did you pick love? He goes because it captures, like it is not passion, it's like you have to love that. You have to love the people. You have to love that. You have to love the people you have to love, and he goes.

Trevor Botkin: 33:26

If you're running a company, you don't love coming to work and solving the problems and the challenges, and then the people around you, everyone sees it, they see it, and so that was another one where I so appreciative of some of these things of going.

Trevor Botkin: 33:42

You know if, if, if your employees can't find what they love within what they're doing, they leave. And if you can't say, you know, not everything's gonna not everything's gonna be. You know sunshine and roses. But you know, not at all, not at all. And and I remember as a kid I couldn't wait to be an adult because I just hated school and I hated homework and I just I saw my parents, I'm like man when I'm an adult. This is going to be so much better because the people who are the most successful today have a, a growth mindset. But be love the process of learning and new things and getting better at what they're doing, and see that as the journey, not oh, I'm done learning now, I can just do it. But they love, they love to learn and the acquisition of knowledge is just joy. And and and and are coachable and our coachability.

Michael Bellows: 34:49

Coachability is one of the biggest things we interview for and sometimes we give feedback during an interview and it is not even real feedback, but we just want to see if they, how they they take it and how they apply it. One of my favorite things to do is, halfway through an interview, ask them how they think the interview is going, really yeah, and then you can actually see them think about their performance and think about their other, like they did and went oh, I probably didn't really love my answer to that and you give them an opportunity to kind of self coach and you can see more how someone thinks, as opposed to this script they practiced about all these generic BS answers before, so it's like I really love that one because it's really how you humanize the conversation and then allow them to kind of self-reflect and self-coach and you can see you can get your ego meter, as I call it, to see where their ego is at and how coachable they are.

Trevor Botkin: 35:42

So how do you think this podcast is going? Fantastic question, I'll do. You think this podcast is going?

Michael Bellows: 35:48

Fantastic question. I'll give you feedback after.

Trevor Botkin: 35:52

I think it's going really well, Michael. Yeah, it's going really good. Yeah, it's fun, Awesome. I so appreciate who you are, even more than what you've accomplished, and I'm excited about what you are even more than what you've accomplished. And I and and, and I'm excited about what you are accomplishing and, I think, what you're going to accomplish.

Trevor Botkin: 36:10

I think back to that breakfast and I should have asked you for a job back then, but it is such a, it is such a privilege to watch your journey, the humility with which you, you approach everything you do, and and for anyone in our community. So many will never accomplish what you've accomplished and what you continue to accomplish. I mean truly, truly beautiful business growth, and you have every reason to to walk around without that humility, and yet you choose to, to be self-effacing and funny and and and just continue to show up and help others, and infinite amount of time that you give to others who are starting their journey as entrepreneurs, uh, and to do it at a relatively young age. You're, you're, you are remarkable. So I just want to say how much I appreciate you being in our community. Thanks, man, I just had right back. Uh, you're, you're, you are remarkable. So I just want to say how much I appreciate you being in our community.

Michael Bellows: 37:06

Thanks, man, I just said right back, right back at you, it's, it's been, it's been awesome and so many, so many amazing relationships from this community, including including ours. So I appreciate you having me back on today and and hopefully we can do this again, again, soon.

Trevor Botkin: 37:26

And to anyone who's listening, who wants to find out more about go materials uh, you are privately held, so you're not a public, so they can't give you money unless they have lots of money to give. Um, are you haven't done an investors round in a while?

Michael Bellows: 37:36

eh, it's been a few years in a few years, it's been a few years, we're uh we're in market right now, exploring some options. So if if anyone listens that is curious to learn more, that's an opportunity, yeah.

Trevor Botkin: 37:50

And that's fantastic. But you're on LinkedIn. I'll try to remember to stick your contact information, your LinkedIn profile, your company website, but it's gomaterialscom for anyone listening. We'll put that in there. And then, obviously, if they want to meet you in person, they have'll put that in there. And then, um, uh, obviously, if they want to meet you in person, they have to find you in Montreal, one of the rare times when you're not traveling growing the business across North America. Um, on that, and then again to, to, to, to kind of wrap it up Thanks so much for for everything you do and how you do it. Thank you, sir. Appreciate your time, of course, and to everyone else listening today, thank you for your time and for the CC Canada members and members around the world, thank you for your contributions to this growing and developing community and to everyone else. This is where leaders connect.